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Hip-Hop Backlash

CNN reported an interesting story about a group trying to change or at least off-set the image of women, especially black women, portrayed by today's hip-hop music lyrics and videos. Read the story here and let me know what you think.

I personally am so sick of the crap mainstream hip-hop is laced with that I don't even care what kind of talent they might have, so I don't listen to it. But I know that alot of people like that genre and think the artists are really talented. How do you all justify your position?

Yes

This is exactly what we are trying to tell people. But we are also trying to tell people that Hip-Hop didnt start out this way. That there is some really great R&B, Hip-HOP tracks out there.

-Shawn Phillips
www.dawntownmusic.com

my two cents

I personally think that the only people who like Hip-Hop anymore are those who are in high school, or who can't get over the high school idea of what is cool.

High School?

They said the main demographic of hip-hop music is affluent white males ages 18-34. So I don't think there's much basis for the argument that it's only high school kids or the socially backward. Obviously there's much more interest than that. I think the point is that it's so wide-spread that we're undermining the respect we should have for women and no one cares, they just keep supporting it with their wallets.

But is there really much subs

But is there really much substance in the rap/hip hop lyrics that we hear today other than the "baby come and get up on me". Rappers used to talk about things that really mattered to them. Now its all about sex. Or wait maybe that is all that matters. Because women are an easy target they keep making millions. Now some women are taking a stand, and maybe these "voaclists" will have to put out some real music for us to listen too.

Good Question

That's what I'm trying to figure out. Is there really that much substance? I say no, but obviously people feel otherwise because it's such a huge industry.

Is there anyone out there that is a fan of Hip/Hop music that can take a position and defend this genre? Or do we all just agree that this is smut we should work toward eradicating?

Well ya, but it's stupid and

Well ya, but it's stupid and worthy of scorn.

Bob

Yeah if they start taking away your friends in box cars (trains) and they dont come back. WHY STOP THEM -Adolf

captain obvious to the rescue!

if it offends you, don't listen to it!

Thanks, Anonymous Coward

I can see we've got some real, intelligent arguments flying here. If you took the time to read the article it doesn't just talk about Hip/Hop and how I don't like it - it talks about how the huge majority of hip hop songs portray women in a way that they claim is degrading and there is no significant medium that tells the consumers otherwise. In fact, the woman featured in the article wasn't even for 'eradicating' that portrayal, just finding a way to balance it with something positive as well. I added the 'eradication' part myself, not referring to hip hop in general, but the scantily clad women shakin' everything their mama gave them and more, and the generally thick sexual overtone that pervades in such music and hip hop. It's not just a matter of 'if you don't like it don't listen to it' when its effects spill over into all other media of entertainment.

Is the music industry to blame?

First off...Boxcars, Adolf? great comparison (sarcastic). Why is it that when ever anyone who has no intelegent comment to say, and they are trying to argue with someone over a point, their opponent automatically becomes Hitler? Can we say childish?
The HipHop/Rap music industry is an organization that promotes artists who are able to sell albums in an attempt to show how life really is. It was about life on the street and how it was for the lowly gangsta. But the industry has turned into a money machine, and so they know as well as any other industry that sex sells. That is the problem. We have made the sex/pornography industry one of the largest industries in this country. Music producers know that if they want a hit song, that is the agenda they need to push. What we need to do is take a much deeper look than just the rap industry. It is about what we value in society. But all genres of music are begining to use sex as their theme. I dont believe the problem is in the music industry, but the music industry looks at how successful the sex indusrty is and then they use the same techniques. I personally enjoy many Hip Hop and Rap songs, but yes it is getting out of control. Music will change when we change. (lets get these gangstas back to siging about shooting cops and doing drugs!:) just kidding of course)

Lam

elvis=gyrating hips
lil jon and ludacris=shut up ho and bend over with a video to go.

you cant tell me all is well in zion!

The need is in the homes witht he parents? Okay then as a parent shout from your roof top that the hiphop industry is funded by the porn industry.

DOnt believe me?

Snoop dogg has his on porn company. And he won an award on the kids choice awards.

SOMEONE ACT FAST!!!!!

please

anyone who cant see what is happening to the world in general is just blind. Or oblivious to the fact that things arent getting better by record companies and thugs influencing the future generation.

I dont care if your muslim, hindu jew, MORMON you know what is right and what is wrong.

question:
so what about the religions kids who live in utah? They are watching, listening and acting this stuff out. How does that help?

Their parents can't understand the slang either.

compare where we are morally!

I agree with jawinterton

please close the thread now

If it does not close. Who are all of you? Are you regular readers at the Pulse or did you just find us through a random search and you decided to speak out against the mormons?

popularity has its drawbacks

I love how popular the Pulse is getting Mason, but I also hate that all of these weirdos will google and then leave the gayest comments.

Response from the Puritan

"Listen, puritan, just because they don't adhere to the same moral philosophy as you do, i.e., puritanical christian cosmology, it does not mean that you have the right to dictate to them how they choose to express themselves."

I'll just disregard the assumptive puritan generalizations, because they're just that - baseless assumptions meant to be condescending.

On one hand, I have no problem with people and how they want to express themselves. I recognize that there are many people who have different morals or ideas of a good time than me. Anyone can live the life they want to live and express themselves however they'd like as long as it doesn't interfere with my life. What pisses me off is that I have to be exposed to crap that I don't want to, and it's not just a matter of turning a CD off, or changing the channel when there's a lude video on TV. I avoid those CD's and channels. It's the fact that not only do its effects show up in the shows I watch, it's in the commercials in between the shows I watch, it's in the music people around me listen to. So when you say I don't have the right to dictate to them how they express themselves, you're right. But don't even suggest that I don't have the right to dictate what I am exposed to. And if that means speaking out against what I consider to be smut in all forms of entertainment that I may, however brief or incidentally, be exposed to, then that's exactly what I'll do and continue doing no matter which emotion-backed, baseless epithets or childish names get thrown at me when someone disagrees with my position. It's ironic and funny how all of you chastising me for dictating to someone else how they can express themselves, are yourselves guilty of the exact thing you're wrongly accusing me of!

So why don't we just leave it at that?

foreals. This is getting quite dumb.

Back to the Original Intent

It seems like every one of us missed the entire point of my post. My original statement was that I disliked the Hip Hop genre because of how perverse and sexual in nature it has become. I asked the question, does anyone still like this genre, and can you justify your position? So far anyone that seems to be in favor of Hip Hop has not made an effort to take a stand or make a point, but only to either tear down the position of those speaking out against it or just take personal cheap shots. That's totally understandable, though, because that just seems to be the typical response from those without anything to say. It's the argumentless argument, and just another example of how no one in society is willing to take a stand on anything anymore for fear of possibly offending someone else. So I guess I'll just extend the challenge once again, and hopefully all those Anonymous Cowards can find the courage to actually take their own stand on an issue and take the time to think of a proper, articulate response. Is there anyone out there who is in favor of the perverse, sexual nature of hip hop and is willing to defend their position? Or are the only ones articulate enough to express their position with me in wanting to clean it up?

whatever

but the motab doesnt have corrupt money pushing into the minds of children on tv, billboards, radio, video games, clothing stores, candy wrappers, etc...

until you have the 14 year old daughter who comes home pregnant from the homie down the street or your child gets booked on possesion or you walk into a dance and your kids are dry humping someone none of this will make sense.

It will always be about Freedom of speech. What a crock!

Don't tell people that hiphop is a culture and a way of life BS. when you nothing about its TRUE roots and where it came from.

Jen is not a Nazi, a member o

Jen is not a Nazi, a member of the Taliban, or a representative of the First Presidency by stating that there are immature posters on ProvoPulse. Nor does she in any way claim to be one or act like one. Being annoyed with childish name-calling and other posts from anonymous cowards is just that, being annoyed.

Funny how those who are first to criticize are those who are last to say anything intelligent.

Thanks Farker

I would like all of the Anonymous Cowards to know that you alone did not bring on my frustration with immature and meaningless posts. Refer to the Ashley Simpson article a few weeks ago, as well as the Jon Heder death article from last week. Those are other examples of times when people came to the Pulse and contributed nothing but negativity. If you have something meaninful to say, say it. If there is an issue that you have an opinion on, voice it. But if the only reason you leave a comment is to degrade and humiliate others (much like the women in the hip-hop/rap music issue itself, remember that, the original reason this entire thread started?), I think I can safely say that we would like you to keep your opinions to yourself.

I would like to call a truce with all the Anonymous Cowards. I won't say that you have to stop posting if you will do two things for all of us.
1-Post something that has to do with the original topic/question/issue
2-Let us know who you are, is this the same person posting over and over? (which would be quite funny, all of us members getting worked up over joe schmo calling us names) Or have 20 different people really been worked up over this thread and resorted to calling me a member of the Taliban (which wasn't even a very good one, very un-original).

In the immortal words of Thumper the Rabbit "If you can't say something nice (insert the word intellegent here) don't say anything at all)

Fo Shizzle my nizzle

I guess I was just hoping tha

I guess I was just hoping that you would have the decency to lay off the personal attacks and post something that has to do with the original issue.

homework

okay please go out and rent "Beat Street" on dvd produced by Harry Belefonte.

then watch the lil jon video

You then tell me if HipHop hasnt changed!

Spinning the beat

To answer the original question, I like rap for a variety of reasons, some of those being lyrical talent (ie Snoop Dogg's Lay Low, Black Eyed Peas' Shut Up, etc. etc.) and for really well designed tracks (Jurassic 5's What's Golden, Eminem's Just Lose it, 2Pac's Hit 'Em Up)

I'm very picky about the tracks that I'll listen to (and play for the crowd when I'm spinning) and even then, I pretty much refuse to watch the videos that come with the songs. But even then, there are songs that I don't care what the lyrics say because all I'm interested in is the beat. In any case, I don't have to justify my likes just as much as you don't have to justify your distate for the genre. I've been a fan of the genre since who knows how long. There are different songs that entertain me for different reasons. And the lyrical portrayal doesn't matter really all that much anyways.

I think Eminem's lyrical skillz are far and beyond what you'll find in almost any genre, that right there is reason enough for me to keep on listening. Dr Dre is like the Wayne Gretsky of rap. There's another excellent reason for me to keep on listening. I could go on but I'm tired.

hip hop backlash

THE ISSUE SHOULDN'T BE DIRECTED ON JUST THE HIP HOP ARTIST THAT MAKE THESE KIND OF VIDEOS, BECAUSE YOU CAN FIND THESE IMAGES IN ALL GENRE'S OF MUSIC, AS WELL AS ANY FORM OF ENETERTAINMENT. THE FOCUS OF THE PROBLEM OUGHT TO BE ON THE WOMEN THAT WILLINGLY PARTICAPATE IN THESE SCENES. I CAN UNDERSTAND IF THESE WOMEN ARE ASPIRING DANCERS OR JUST WANT TO BE SEEN ON TV,BUT HOW IS IT THAT THESE WOMEN AREN'T MAKING THE DECISION TO WALK AWAY FROM THE SET ONCE THEY REALIZE THE CONTEXT IN WHICH THEY WILL BE WORKING/PARTRAYED.
THE ARTIST CAN'T MAKE THESE TYPES OF VIDEOS IF THEY DON'T HAVE THE WOMEN TO PARTICIPATE IN THEM.

fake

did you know that Dr Dre used to produce only techno? Yep look up the world class wreckin crew. I have pictures of him wearing sequin jackets and makeup. All during a time when he was supposed to be a hardcore gangster.

2pac doing the running man with debbie gibson yep its on video.

for those of you who think rap is the real truth about the mean streats are ALL SUCKERS!

Again watch Beat street vs todays videos. Cmon guys do your homework!

you say its all about the beat. Then why even comment on eminems lyrics? If its all about the beat then the next time play only instrumentals.

why does eveyone have to do exactly what the media tells them to do?

go our and buy "last night a dj saved my life" book. Then come back and post.

"Freedom of Speech"

So far I haven't heard anyone that defends hip hop, defend it on the basis that they like the lewdness and crudeness. Alot of people have, however tried to shield the problem under the veil of First Amendment Rights - or 'Freedom of Speech'. Freedom of speech does not give you a carte blanche to saying whatever you want however you want. I don't know if there are any limits on what you can say, but there are definitely limits on how you can say things. The Supreme Court, who we look to to interpret the constitution, has affirmed and reaffirmed that 'obscenity' is not protected under the First Amendment.

the constitution

Sorry, why was it again that referring to the Constitution is a 'slippery slope'? And I think it was decided by the Founding Fathers that the Supreme Court was to decide what was 'Freedom of Speech' and what was obscenity.

The Slippery Slope

Here's the slippery slope.

Somebody says that the f*** bomb is a obscene, and takes it all the way to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court says f*** is obscene and not protected by freedom of speech. The next time you drop the f*** bomb in the prescence of somebody who doesn't want to hear it, they sue you for damages, and you end up losing a case that costs you $10,000,000 dollars. A couple of years later, based of the presedence of the f*** bomb case that the Supreme Court heard, and the suit that was succesful against you, somebody says that mentioning cheese is offensive, and that makes it all the way to the supreme court. Your dad makes a bad joke about cutting the cheese a couple of months later, somebody is offended, and sues for $10,000,000 dollars, wins and now your family is down $20,000,000 dollars for two different words. Freedom of speech is an absolute, untouchable deal, otherwise the slippery slope is all sorts of people coming out of the woodworks trying to place their own limitations on the freedom of speech. It is all about precedence.

again

Okay so according to the young liberal folks we shoudlnt be trying to shut down the hiphop movement because it then infringes on our rights...right?

Okay then where is your alternative? What is your alternative.

What company, radio station music, channel, clothing store, movie theater and more is talking billions of dollars and pushing the alternative?

You guys speak as though all is well and its just freedom of choice.

Well your freedoms seem to be more and more limited the more freedom we give to these companies, producers and rap artists.

Why is it that in 1979 Kenny Rogers was considered top 40 with less teenage pregnancies and less gang violence. Now in 2005 lil jon 50 cent and eminem are pop.

Looks to me like we went downhill.

liberalisticalishy

first off, I would like to point out that liberalistic and liberalish arent real words, though i guess you do get creativity points for adding on redundant, albeit entertaining, suffixes.

To make an actual point (watch out, Im an english major, so this will probably be long)I would like to say that the first amendment is really a tricky one, in that our founding fathers were basing the constitution on the basis of a moral,godfearing country. The way the right of speech amendment is designed, there is no clear definition as to just where the line is drawn between a person being able to express themselves, and the rights of the viewing public not to be exposed to things that they dont find appropriate. The founding fathers left this ambiguous, and thus up to common consensus. As Brad correctly pointed out, the bottom line is the supreme court in deciding what is appropriate, but since the supreme court doesnt visit provopulse.com all too often, its really left up to the public and majority vote to decide what we as a society find as appropriate. So really, all of you trashing on brad for not respecting the 1st, dont quite have a leg to stand on, since we all have the right to voice our opinion and do what we can to keep publicly accessable venues clean and inobtrusive.

I highly doubt that if brad was speaking out against a type of music that blatently showed slavery as correct, or had shots of the KKK, or was white supremist, or that stated that it was good to beat children- then none of you would be stepping up and saying, yeah, but they have freedom of speech, so more power to them. But one could point out that those are all actions that impede on other people's freedom, and thus they are universally unacceptable, and as a civilized society, the majority vote would be that that is something we do not accept and dont want publicized.
So it comes down to simply this.... is what we see in hip hop, rap, and R&B videos really something that we want to show as represantative of the united states of america? Is that really how we want other countries to assume that that is what america stands for? When you leave your home, are you happy knowing that the whole time you are gone, your kids can be watching videos laced with blatent sexual images, swear words and other forms of foul language, references to drugs and popping a cap in anyone that crosses you wrong, and that unashamedly portray a culture that is morally repugnant? If thats all right by you, then go right ahead and jump on that bandwagon.

It should be noted though, that every era in a culture or civilization is represented by what was most published during its time and what it contributed to the eras that succeed it. Right now, I just hope that somehow the history books will just jump over the fact that our current most well known and widely published author is not a poet laureate, but rather JK Rowling, our most acclaimed paintings are white canvases with paint spilled on them, and our media with the most patronage and acceptance is based on sex, drugs, violence, and disrespect for authority.

Really, i dont put the blame on the music industry necessarily, since they wouldnt be making any money if the public didnt show such an interest. If this is the level we have sunk to, then so be it. Im no saint, almost all of my favorite movies are rated R and I've never been able to pull of a molly mormon facade, nor have i tried to. I am just disappointed in the direction our country is headed. As for the freedom of speech, I would just hope that we would continue to keep all that is on public television to be something we would want to be representative of our country, and be something that we wouldnt mind our 12 year old brother watching. If people want to watch a bunch of near naked chicks shakin their booties all up on some grammatically challenged boy from the ghetto pretending that this is real life- then go right ahead, just peddle it somewhere that is exclusively acceptable and not on the public channels. My biggest problem with today's music isnt even the low morals, but the profound lack of musicality, since writing your own music, playing your own instruments, and the ability to perform live have been replaced with "if you are hot and have a nice ace, then we can just hook up up to a computer to generate a generic voice singing formulaic music, and slap some half naked dancers behind you and make you a super star"- but that is off topic and my own schizm with the music industry.

Its just really too bad that if someone just likes rap or hiphop as a genre because they like the music- it has become something that is nearly (though not completely) bereft of morallity and musicallity, but rather it is catchy lyrics, a kickin beat, and booty shakin that is exponentially prevailing. Not to mention the malrepresentation that this is giving to members of urban society that dont perscribe to the same low morals, but since they are black or from the inner city, what is seen on MTV or BET is how there culture is represented.