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Folding to "the man"

As much as it pains me to do this, I've decided to take down Booterwatch because of worries of possible legal action against me. I'm too poor to afford a lawyer so I have to give in to the pressure. The last thing I need right now is a legal battle.

This doesn't mean that all discussion of how to reform Provo's booting ordinance will be dropped necessarily, but the pictures, booting stories, and anything else that could possibly be construed as defamatory will be has been taken down.

I'm sorry guys, but I don't have much of a choice.

UPDATE: Despite the removal of Booterwatch's original contents, I'm still accepting booting stories / photos, so if you've got something to share, email it to booterwatch@provopulse.com. They may eventually be posted, but I can't promise you anything.

Many unlawful practices...

If all we were talking about here was students who don't know where to park, that would be one thing. However, I have had and heard of many incidents with University Parking Enforcement that were not legal, fair, or ethical.

Some of the most blaring are incidents where the parking sticker allowing the car to be parked in the lot is clearly placed in the appropriate place, but simply covered by snow, etc.

During one of my own encounters with these lovely people I was parked in a spot specifically designated for those living in my apt to park in. It was located in the carport under my condominium. I went downstairs to drive to work and found my car booted. I was responsible for the safety and well-being of an individual. My car was booted unlawfully, and if there was an emergency with this individual, which happened at times, I had no way to help. The employee showed up to "help" me, and instead of listening to me, and accepting an offer to proof that this was my car, and that I did live there, insisted that if I did not pay immediately, would tow my car. He said that he was doing me a favor by not towing it. After having a heated argument with him, I got TPM on the phone and they promptly replied that they would take care of it. I was grateful that I had not given in, however, I was very late for work, while I had done nothing wrong. They were in contract with TPM to protect me as a resident, and instead a resident was punished.

There has to be a better option. A way to serve everyone's purposes in a fair manner. The way UPE conducts their business currently is not lawful. Legally they have to provide a place of business and a way to contact them. Their address is a PO Box and I have tried to contact them directly with my complaints, but they either ignore their mail or it is a fake. I sent a letter by certified mail with a return receipt requested. It was returned to me undeliverable. If they are so willing to talk to us, why don't they accept mail?

Legally, the "paperwork" (flier on the window) has to be completed, mine was not. State statutes state that they must conduct business in vehicles which are clearly labeled, and allow you to call them so that you can verify their business, all of these were ignored and not practiced in one of my encouters with them.

Of course there will be incidents of students simply trying to get out of a boot or tow that is legal. However, if the booting companies expect fair treatment from us, they must treat us fairly as well. I am now taking my situation to the state government.

To the smug booters:

Are you missing any $200 boots? See after I took them off the cars I thought pretty seriously about giving them back to a certain offending company. After a good laugh, I decided that quietly fighting back in my own way was more noble.

I'll make you a deal. I will sell them back to you at half-price (only $100!) if you catch me taking them off, no lecturing, bullcrap about how I don't have the authority, or anything like the creative excuses you've developed. But good luck, my best time is now under 15 minutes.

Later is better than never...

Mason,

I am glad you are man enough to tell it like it is and to know when enough is enough. I was about to divulge all of your personal information to the public to see how you would feel, knowing that someone who may hate you, knew where you lived and how to contact you. I hope you have learned your lesson with this experience.

You have the potential to make this a VERY respectable website. However, as long as you allow all comments to be posted by anyone without having some sort of screening process you will always have the same problem. Compare it to graffiti, if you own a building in a clean part of town and someone comes and tags it, but you don't bother cleaning it up, its more than likely that your building will get tagged again and again. I think that is exactly what happened with your website. Your original opinion was harmless enough and was on the verge of becoming an intelligent conversation or even a possible solution to a problem, but no-one bothered to "clean up" or screen the comments posted. Because of this, your original opinion turned for the worst when you allowed people to post exactly what was on their mind with no thought of civility with which your opinion was due.

Anyway, I hope instead of starting a new web-page about all of the things wrong with booting, you take the time to talk (not type) to the owners of the booting companies. Who knows, you may be surprised with how they treat you.

I have now become a loyal fan of your web-site and will encourage others to become fans as well as long as you find some way to force your discussion forums to follow a certain courteous/civil way of communicating.

Come on Mason

Mason,

Oh, how could you have folded? Please tell us what specifically sparked this epiphany! Have you talked to a lawyer or did you take counsel from someone who is unqualified? TALK TO A LAWYER. There is probably a free one that volunteers on BYU's campus. Providing opposition is a PART OF THE 1ST AMENDMENT (don't fall in line with the BYU stereotype of being submissive to all authority and intimidation, you're better than that!).

The information I posted about the owners contact information is PUBLIC DOMAIN. It's already on the internet with the State of Utah. You didn't breach any privacy by having it on your site and I would strongly encourage you to continue to take a stand against an immoral, although not illegal, practice.

LINGER ON THESE WORDS FROM TOM PETTY: I WON'T BACK DOWN, NO I WON'T BACK DOWN, YOU CAN STAND UP UP AGAINST THE GATES OF HELL, BUT I WON'T BACK DOWN!

DAMN THE MAN! FIGHT THE FIGHT!

Tom
USUAGGIES.COM

Further proof that the law is for the wealthy

For followers of my previous posts, prepared to be shocked:

I'd be suprised what would happen if we get the ACLU involved in a legal defense of this supposed "libel" and "slander." If I believe that a certain company's practices "suck" isn't it my 1st amendment right to express my discontent about their "suckage"?

As to the commenter who likes to remain anonymous... You and people who think like you are the kind of people who would have locked Martin Luther King away for expressing his opinions. I'm sure you feel happy about curbing the immediate debate, but what have you solved? Strong arming a poor college kid into submission? I hope to high heaven that one day somebody applies the same cold, steely vice grips to your juglar and forces you into submission for your actions.

Damn... I think I'm turning into a liberal... Mase, how do I make it stop?

Who makes the parking rules anyway?

As a senior at BYU, I've seen a few years and a lot of booted cars here in "happy valley". I dont like being booted, but can you blame the booter for upholding the contracts he has with each of our own apartment managers who in fact made the rules in the first place? Our apartment managers make their own parking rules and call on parking enforcement companies to enforce the rules. If you want things to change, it's going to have to start with property owners and managers. If we get the managers on our side the parking enforcement companies will be out of work. Also, I dont know if this is true, but doesn't the BYU honor code somewhere say something about parking enforcement? Someone said it does, but I dont know.

Mason

I think that you appeared for like maybe 2.23456 seconds on that YBU TV thing. The girl said "you have to pay up to 60 Dollars!" which is funny cause the maximum fine for a boot is 55.00 (half of a tow fee). She was so professional. Oh, and your friend that was "booted so many times in a month that" he couldnt even pay his rent must be a complete idiot! YOu think that he would learn the first time. He is either lieing (slander) or he should get an award for paying for UPE's mortgage.

A question that I would like you to answer: Is it the booters fault for enforcing the rules that they did not create that is causing the problem or is it the studens that dont follow the rules? (this is a very simple question so you dont have to jump all over the place with this one)

The fact is...

Free press. Public information. Chosen profession.

Have you guys ever dealt with the people who boot? Have you arrived while they were booting- or even about to boot you? They're often complete "idiots," or have not been taught by their superiors correct application of the laws that apply to their profession and the duties they perform while at work.

I have a well known website in the Provo area, and nearly took action to educate the student population in Provo of their rights because they were being WALKED ALL OVER. By the city and by the "parking enforcement" comapnies.

Remember my question above- Have you arrived when a booter was crouching to boot? Did he put the boot on anyway? Did you have to pay the $50 or whatever lame amount it was to get the boot off? I did. Three other people that I know of did.

I have booting stories up the kazoo, but I won't go into them here. Mason, keep up the good work. Show the community the respect students deserve as citizens of the community. No other college town I've lived in has looked down their noses at students as much as Provo has. Then again, that's probably because BYU/UVSC students are so much more trouble than in those other cities.

Brett

Oh- I don't know what Booterwatch entails, or what information is postes, but just for future reference:

Provo City Code:
(d) If the registered owner or authorized agent arrives at a
vehicle before the parking enforcement or towing company has
finished booting the vehicle and the required paperwork or before a tow truck operator has removed the vehicle off the premises, the parking enforcement or towing company shall be entitled to only one-half the regularly charged fee for booting or towing a vehicle.

Knights, I mean KPE

Ever wonder why Knights towing goes under at least two names. Knights and K.P.E. ??? is that so more of the hate is spread out between "two" companies? Becuase if all the crap they did was done by "one" company only, they would expect more action against them. Very clever in making the problem look like it is caused by more than one company. If you ever need a tow, call AM/PM they don't prowl parking lots, they only tow on call ins; insurance, cops, break downs, their not shady.

i disagree

Very cool. I think vigilante justice is always the way to go. Even though I personally agree with booting, it's pretty funny that you steal their boots. Just remember that if you do get caught, you're gonna be is some deep s--t.

I agree with enforcement of parking, but I don't agree with how it is done in Provo, or how unethical too many booters are about their business (e.g. booting when the car is perfectly legitimate and they know it, or refusing to de-boot a car that they realize they were in the wrong to boot in the first place). And somehow I doubt this guy will ever get caught, and here's why: if they catch him in the act of taking it off, well, then it becomes an issue of whether or not he has the right to dis-disable his own car, hardly "deep s--t." While the papers they post warn of "a $500 fine and conviction of a felony," for trying to remove a boot, there is in fact no legal grounds for either. It is a scare tactic. And unfortunately, it usually works.

well......

I guess that nobody cares anymore about this subject, there hasnt been a new comment forever!!!!!!!!!!hahahahahah

re: well.....

Nobody cares about this subject because there hasn't been a comment in almost three days?

How about the fact that the page exists, you dumb schmuck?

three words

Carbide hacksaw blade

hey

cant we all just get along???

progress?

Has anyone done anything to actually work against the booting problem here? I recently got a boot from e-bay. Next time I see the booter in my parking lot I will go lock his tire up.

Hey, he doesn't have a parking sticker. Hopefully he'll catch me, but I will take it off for just $40, and if he doesn't like it, well he can call up my friend that I work with and file an appeal with him.

re: progress!!!

I'm glad you got booted you dumb schmuck! Infact I sincerely hope I was the one how booted your car. Should I feel bad that you’re too asinine to follow the rules, or too inbred and illiterate enough to read the signs that say PERMIT PARKING ONLY, or PERMIT REQUIRED! Are you that obtuse to think putting a boot, on a “booter’s” car will do anything? We remove boots for a living jackass! Finally please don’t tell me you’re as dull or thick headed as all these other dim-wits that your next brilliant civil disobedience scheme involves a jar of Peter Pan. I personally have more faith in you, and would hope you could show just a flicker of imagination. Until we meet again… make sure you always carry cash. It makes taking you money from you easier and so much more fulfilling. :)

Long time reader, First time complainer

Aren't you guys in college? You would think that so many people who claim to hold themselves to a higher standard then the rest of the world, by their very admitance into BYU, wouldn't complain so much about trivial things. You would think that they could use their God given intelligence to park somewhere they're supposed to. I actually admire the booter who posted before me. Because he is fortunate enough to make a living off of your stupidity.

There's nothing wrong with taking money from stupid people
-Murphy's Law

P.S. I also see the irony in complaining about complainers

When will it end?

It never ends does it? All i'm trying to do is get through my freshman year. You'd think that would be enough. But instead i'm still paying through the nose for school loans, books, and car payment. I hate it that I've got to put in extra overtime each week because every time i've got to make a car payment, I've got to figure in the extra $40 that my car is costing me each month in booting fees. I know where i can and can't park. But I always get some overzealous booter who is just trying to make quota's and see's my bumper in a red zone or trying to make a few extra bucks to pork out on a slurpee and a foot long. I'm going to start my own booting company to work in provo. And once building managers hire us we just won't put any boots on the cars.
and if we see any other booters they may "accidentally geet a boot on their car.

If you like my idea continue to post, i could use any support i can get

Are you retarded?

I'm glad you got booted you dumb schmuck! Infact I sincerely hope I was the one how booted your car.

Your entire post was based on how I don't park right, when in fact I myself have never been booted. I don't condone parking where you shouldn't, and I have always parked properly with a sticker in my own parking lot. It's no secret that you booters place boots that should not be placed, for various reasons. As you so eloquently stated, "We remove boots for a living jackass!" Note for anyone who missed it: you do not enforce parking for a living, you remove boots.

You left so much in your post to comment on... I can't help but see you as some "couldn't make-it" college guy who used so many insults and name-calling in your post because secretly you need to feel justified by such conscience-taxing "work." See, most of us posters here do honest work to earn money.

But still... there are a few points I'll briefly make:
1. You have never gotten, and will never get, any of my money.
2. You've shown me that I should not feel any sort of guilt for taking your boots off cars (wait-- doesn't that mean that in a way, I'm taking YOUR money?)
3. At your request, I will make a dedicated effort to find and boot you. The chance that you have a key that fits MY boot is highly unlikely.
4. Get a real job.

And First time complainer, do you live around here? I'm just wondering if you see this as the problem it is. I don't have any problem with parking enforcement, I have serious problems with a certain parking enforcement company. Anyone who has frequented this site knows exactly what company I'm referring to.

BYU knows how to make it work on every level. But the fact remains folks, if you have problems with the parking, talk to your apartment managers. They are the ones who hired them. Make it a point that you will not sign on if, for example, College Parking Enforcers is the company who monitors their lots.

did you know?

Did you all know that booting has been a city ordinance now for about 15 years?? What makes you all think that something is gonna change now? The only thing that will change anything is if people would just read the signs! People who get "illegaly" booted should call the police. If you get a boot and do that just because you are mad and dont want to take responsability for your own negligent actions, you are just waisting the officers time because when he see's that it was legally placed on your car, he will tell you that you must pay. I dont know about you people but if I was wrongfully booted I would call the pigs. If you truly were, you wont have to pay.
One more fact of the day: Up until about 5 or 6 years ago, apartment managments were booting the cars themselves!!! Then the ordinance changed to where they could no longer receive compensation for it so they had to hire a separate parking enforcement company to do the job for them. Incase you are wondering how I know this information, I did a report on Booting and Towing a few months ago. And just for the record, University Parking Enforcement's employees were the nicest company that I interviewed. They are not out to get anyone, they are just doing their jobs.

so...

how about them raiders??

Holy crap you guys ----- too

Holy crap you guys ----- too much! I'm deputy sheriff for Utah County and I would love it if i got a call saying someone just booted a booters truck. It would be funny cause the person placing a boot (who would think they were so funny) would be arrested and charged with Grand theft of an auto, because you are illegally taking possession of some else’s car. But If they were to go and spent 17 dollars for a business license the booter would not have a claim, if he was booted for a real reason. The booter would have to pay the boot fee. Now because the parking lot is under contract a small commission would need to be paid to the booting company. Now I support your crusade but make sure you down get cause, because you would be prosecuted.

Deputy Sheriff

So, Deputy, you support this crusade? Why is that?
And does a business license mean that booters can illegally boot cars and not be charged with GTA?
Just wondering.

there's a theory

Hey everyone, instead of complaining to the booters, why not just call the police? If you've been booted illegally, then the cops ought to do something about it.

Not like the cops around here have much else to do...

University Parking employees are cool

"And just for the record, University Parking Enforcement's employees were the nicest company that I interviewed. They are not out to get anyone, they are just doing their jobs."

I totally agree with this statement. University Parking Enforcement employees are really nice. I don't know about the other companies, but I've never heard of these guys being jerks. They enforce parking, but aren't anal about it.

Honestly, I'm grateful when places I live have hired a parking enforcement company. If they didn't, I wouldn't have a place to park at night because people who don't live there would be parked in the lot. I didn't start reading this until after the original stuff was taken off, so I might be missing some stories about unfairly being booted (which would be crappy), but I think for the most part booters are fair about what they do. The chance that my car could get booted gets me out of parking lots on time and/or keeps me from parking in some lots at all. If I was to only receive a warning stuck to my car with peanut butter (as was suggested in a previous post) I'd most certainly continue parking there. I'd just continue cleaning it off, parking in the lot, and taking up a tenants spot. And towing is a bit too harsh. I don't know what other option there would be besides to boot violators.

a waste of time

Obviously, Mason has no life. Parking Enforcement is a "real job" and it has the possibilities of making a lot of money because there are some real idiots around happy valley who do not take the time to read a sign or even an information packet that is left on their pillows when they move in, (yes, such is the case at Old Mill). So, follow the rules and there will be no need for parking enforcement. It is as simple as that. You are not going to have any luck in some crusade against the City, State, or anyone else. As long as idiots exist, parking enforcement will be a fact of life. Deal with it, take responsibility for your own actions, and get on with more important things of life.

re: a waste of time

While the vast majority of booters could be honest folks, and almost all of the boots they place are fair and legal, that does not change the fact that there are booters out there who will take advantage of their job by placing boots that are not fair, and thus stealing money from whoever they boot. I personally know of at least three times this has happened. Each time the "victim" called the booting company, the booter would say something to the effect of, "Yeah, you're actually right, you shouldn't have been booted, but I can't take it off or I would get fired. You'll have to pay and then take your case to our appeals." Guilty unless proven innocent, and each time would require a cash payment and the time of that person to make the necessary trips to maybe get it resolved. This is obviously not how it should work.

I don't think anyone here realistically expects or even wants the parking enforcement not to exist, most people just want a change to protect themselves from these (admittedly few) booters who screw other people over.

I find it ironic that people spend time writing, "Mason has no life." What does that say about you? You spend your time reading over what he has to say and commenting on it. Mason has the resources to host a site that addresses a real problem. If you don't think it is, get off your high horse and go back to doing your so-important things. People like you are the reason why Happy Valley has the reputation of being judgmental and holier-than-thou.

I hope you get booted unfairly.

This whole web site

People who bitch and moan about getting booted or towed just crack me up. They come out with stupid things like: I will get a boot of my own and boot the booters; or, lets get the apartment managers all together and get them on our side and then there will be no more booting or towing; or even better, I know the law better than the people who are in the industry do so I know best. All this just proves that you got caught parking where you should not of and now you are blowing hot air trying to save face because you got caught. Now, if you want some real solutions, here are some for you:

You people who complain about being booted or towed seem to think you have a right to own a car and to drive it. Wrong. No where does it say that people have that right. The state gives you a license that says you have the "opportunity" to drive a car assuming that you will follow all the rules and regulations governing where you drive and park that car. So, lets do this. When you get booted or towed, let's make it so a point goes against your driving record and after 2 such points your license will be revoked permanently. It is obvious you can't operate a car inside the rules that have been set up, so they will simply take away that privilege. Let's see you try to fight the State to get your license back. Or, if you park where you shouldn't, then we could make it to where the towing company would simply tow the car, instead of booting it, and after showing the necessary paperwork and photos of where the car was parked to a judge or officer (or having an officer certify that the car is truely parked incorrectly) then the towing company assumes title and full ownership of that car and is free to sell it to the highest bidder. Or crush it if they deem it necessary. That would solve the problem since you cannot take the responsibility on yourselves to park where you should and have the correct stickers. Or, and this would be a radical solution, after having the car certified that it was incorrectly parked, then they could just put a match to it and take care of the problem that way. Quick and easy way to deal with it and it gets the point across.

Now, each of these solutions has its own set of good points and bad, but you can't say that they are any more correct or incorrect than booting a booter or anything else that has been suggested here. Here is a novel concept though, one that seems to have slipped your minds. KNOW THE RULES BEFORE YOU PARK AND STICK BY THEM. It is not going to kill you to walk a few extra feet every now and again just because you can't park as close as you would like. If you know you can't park on a red curb, then make sure that no part of your car is in the red area of the curb. If you know you have to have a permit to park somewhere, then get one. Don't make your short commings someone elses problem.

re: the whole website

This just proves that you guys seem to think you are the police doing a public service.

You're not. You're not even security. You're low-end employees. You don't provide anyone with a service, contrary to what you may believe. Tell me this, has the parking problem gotten better or worse in Provo in the last five or ten years?

the anonymous coward/booter

That's interesting that you blame the parking problem on growth. Do you have any statistics to back that up? Maybe you've been unaware of all the news articles on how landlords are having trouble filling their apartments. There is more housing than there are tenants to fill them.

The parking enforcement has everything to do with it. They are supposed to enforce parking. They are supposed to protect the regular tenants. Instead, they lock violators (and plenty of innocent people) down and keep their cars there, so when they go to move their car they can't. So coward/booter, I see you have brains to call names and respond to Mason's statement with the informative "shut up," but you're proving yourself inept and unable to have anything intelligent to say.

Keep up the noble work, assclown.