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Someone claims to have found "The Book of Hagoth"

Do you guys think this is a hoax, or does this guy (or group) really believe all this shtuff?

http://mentinah.com/

Volume 1
Book of Hagoth
Hagoth built ships and departed from the Land Southward with his family and twelve Nephite and twelve Ammonite families. They traveled north along the Pacific coastline to the mouth of the Colorado River, up the Colorado River to the area now known as Four Corners where they settled for a time. They became known as the Nemenhah people. They left the Four Corners area and established two new settlements - one on the plains area and the other further north in the mountains where they remained undefiled by the Gadiantonem Robbers.

Book of Hagmeni
Hagmeni, the son of Hagoth, discovered ancient tombs and records of the Jaredites. He was ordained Prophet and High Priest of the Nemenhah by Nephi the Prophet from Zarahemla. He spoke with Christ in the temple. Samuel the Lamanite, on returning from the Land Southward, spent the winter with the Nemenhah in the land of Mentinah.

But wait... there's more:

The Record of Sahnempet
The Record of Ougou
The First Book of Shi-Tugohah
The Second Book of Shi-Tugohah
The First Book of Shi-Muel
The Second Book of Shi-Muel

Volume 2
The Book of the High Place

Volume 3
Book of Manti
The Book of Shimlie
The Record of Shigoeth
The First Book of Pa Natan
The Second Book of Pa Natan
The Book of Heinmet
Record of Mor-Hanayah (Son of Mormon)

You may be wondering how I found out about these "Mentinah Archives." Someone was actually distributing flyers around student dorms. Anyone else get one?

----- Added 3/28/2011 Admin -----
Learn more about the Restoration of the Church of Jesus Christ

Mentinah Archive - Peopeo/aka Phillip R. Landis

If we ever have a question about gospel doctrine or principles always turn to the church for answers, not the internet. See the info below concerning the "translator" and author of this hoax. This comes from a BYU website cited at the bottom.

Sincerely, Bishop Daniel R. Morris

PS - Mr. Landis aka Ea-lea Powitz Peopeo I hope you end up where you belong, in jail. While there, search your heart for the strength to repent and read about people like Korihor who's life and work you are mirroring. There you will see your future if you don't repent.

Dear Skeptic,

You have good reason to be doubtful concerning the contents of the so-called "Mentinah Archives." This interesting document is imaginative, but reeks of fraudulence.

As a matter of interest:
The translator of "The Mentinah Archives," known as Cloudpiler, is a "National Board Certified Traditional Naturopath" and President of the Utah Naturopathic Association.
Other sources cite one Phillip R. Landis as President of the Utah Naturopathic Association. This Mr. Landis is likely the inscrutable Cloudpiler. (Incidentally, he also wrote the Forward for �The Mentinah Archives�.)

In December of 1999, a jury in the State of Montana 19th Judicial District Court found the same Mr. Landis guilty of "the felony offenses of theft and deceptive practices" in a con-scheme involving the growing and harvesting of Reishi mushrooms. The Supreme Court of the State of Montana eventually upheld his conviction, a pair of 10-year suspended sentences. (See State of Montana v. Phillip R. Landis, 00-436.)

I believe that treating the document as bogus will best serve your interests.

http://theboard.byu.edu/index.php?area=viewall&id=14364

Hmm

I don't trust it. The BYU Library has many books of similar nature that are false. We are often so excited to get new revelation that we will accept whatever may come our way. I'm wary. If it were scripture the Lord expected us to accept, the proper channel is to have the general authorities present it at General Conference and be ratified by the Church. A good model of this is the revelation on blacks receiving the priesthood in 1978. Beyond that, the Lord does not hold us responsible for what is contained in any record, for this is the way He has given for us to receive new scripture. As the Church has apparently known about this since 1957, I doubt it's authenticity since no official word has come down from the GA's. Trust the brethren. They will not lead the Church astray. As a Church, we haven't even accomplished the basics the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants exhort for us--are we really ready to receive new scripture? I am wary of anything that comes on a website for anyone can post whatever they feel.

Pacific Islands

I was told once convincingly and perhaps with doctrinal references that Hagoth helped populate the Pacific islands. I am inclined to think that this Book of Hagoth is a prank or something, especially because the website seems fairly unprofessional. Someone scholarly enough to find or translate these "archives" would be able to spend a little bit more on a decent website.

Once, out of curiosity, I

Once, out of curiosity, I did a few Google searches and found three or four different versions of the sealed portion of the plates, which different groups or individuals claimed to have received through revelation. I also found one or two versions of the 116 lost pages, as well.

So forgive me for being skeptical of the "Book of Hagoth."

An answer to above comments

Dear Chatters, Tuesday, July 11, 2006

I thought it would be fun to Surf the Net to see what people are saying about the Mentinah Archives. I am the Chief over Publishing. As I read over what was written on this chat page I couldn't help but chuckle. The white man’s culture shone out and I thought it would be fun to respond to the points and hopefully it will clarify some of the confusion. Please forgive me for the length of my reply. Although, I do believe it is well worth reading.

First, as Kingbyu indicated, Hagoth's descendants did populate the Pacific Islands but it was through his first-born son Hag Tlouah (some called Hagothah – the ah at the end means “son of or came from”) and those who were blown off course with him. We know this for some returned to the mainland and reported what had happened. Hagoth himself never went to the Pacific Islands that we have any record of so far. In fact, he died before knowing the fait of his son. This information is found in these Archives. It is interesting, after the volume speaking of these things was released; I have been contacted from the islands and have been told these details match what they have. As more records come forth from the peoples of this earth such information will become more verified in greater details. Elder Oaks is right. The records are coming forth and they are going to come from all peoples. From what I gather, this Archive or library is not unique. Certain Native Americans have passed on the keeping of it since Hagoth (the same pattern seen in the Book of Mormon). It was not like the Dead Sea Scrolls. This library was not found and then the scholars came in to try to translate and peace it back together. No, this library, the Mentinah Archives, was intact. It even had a card catalog type system so one could quickly find whatever record they were looking for. This is not unusual among the Native Americans, there are many such libraries, which are intact and have been protected from the white man. Most of you should know of one of these libraries. Joseph Smith and others have testified of the library in the Hill Camorah. Whether it is in the hill we call Camorah or not, I don’t know. We also know that library exists for the Mentinah Archives speaks of it, for Samuel the Lamanite was in charge of it after he returned from preaching to the Nephites. Now, since the release of the first volume the Mentinah library has been moved to protect it since some of the artifacts had been stolen. The Native Americans have and are doing all they can to protect their records. It will not surprise me that the same has been done throughout the world. But those stuck in white man thinking will be looking for the scholars instead of who the Lord is raising up to bring forth the records. And they will most likely do as Elder Oaks hoped they wouldn’t and that is reject the records like the Book of Mormon was rejected.

Second, Kingbyu used the appearance of the website as evidence that the Archives are a prank. That’s funny. Kingbyu, we are not trying to impress anyone. The only reason these records are being released is the Lord said it is time. I doubt very seriously that the translators would have released them otherwise. These records are sacred to them and their families and the last thing they would want is to give it to the white man to be disrespected like the countless other sacred things of theirs in the past. They won’t release anything to please the white man, but they did for God. Although, I have heard Cloudpiler on many occasions tell people not to read the Archives. He knows the culture of the area he lives. Very few would respect and see value in these records, or respect those called to bring them forth. Who can blame him for giving such advice? As far as the website, it is sufficient to fulfill its purpose. It is easy to update, and easy to use. There are those who see a “rock” and dismiss it, while others who have taken the time to be educated recognize the treasure inside that “rock”. Likewise, these records: The Prophets and the Lord have been very clear the purpose of the records coming forth. Among those things is to bring forth the treasures of knowledge that have been lost or altered, to expose the truth. Many think that means to verify the belief system their culture has evolved into believing. Many thought that of the Book of Mormon and automatically rejected it because they had their interpretations of the Bible. Many today will reject the records coming forth (not just the Mentinah Archives) because they have their interpretation of the Book of Mormon and the things that were revealed in the commencement of the restoration. The fact is, if we took everything that has been revealed and compared it to a grain of sand. What is coming and what will come is like comparing that grain of sand to a mountain. Comparably, we don’t know anything yet. And every time the Lord has revealed something it has always clarified or completely altered the interpretations man had put on His words they already had. Thus, those who have ears to hear will hear and those who have eyes to see will see. Those who don’t won’t. Unlike Cloudpiler, I have always recommended people to read these records, but very few do for they reason why they should read the “Book of Mormon” when they have the “Bible” and they believe in philosophies which are simply not true. For example, today, many LDS people believe that prophets are only those called to the leadership of their church and that they are the only ones who have the right to reveal truths to the world. That is simply not true, if it was Samuel the Lamanite, Mormon, Moroni, Lehi, Abenidi, and countless other Book of Mormon and Bible prophets could not be considered as prophets. The fact is, anyone who has been warned has been commanded to warn his neighbor. That is a prophet and we live in a day where the Lord has sent countless prophets both inside and outside the LDS church to warn the people. Much of those warnings have been ignored because it does not go along with the lifestyles of those who were warned. Thus, we are in perilous times and all the destructions, which we have been warned against, is at our doors just like Jerusalem at the time of Lehi.

Third, Rockboy indicated a sign the Archives is a hoax is that the translators would have sought to have it published in a peer review journal, to have it independently checked for correctness, to verify original record date and show the records. Under his analysis the Book of Mormon must not be true. How many of you believe Rockboy is right? I don’t and I don’t think he does either if he really thought about what he is saying. Most of you know the pattern to find the truth of all things. You used it to find the authenticity of the Book of Mormon and my guess many of you went on missions and have taught it to others. We have been commanded not to rely on the arm of flesh, but on God’s arm. As stated before, the translators have no interest in what the white man views as proof. They know the only way anyone can know if these records are authentic and most of all if their translations are correct is by the proper witness of the Holy Ghost. They know they translated the best they could; that they are confident that 60-65% is accurate. It is not to say 35-40% is totally wrong, it is just that there were no words in our language to accurately describe what they were translating, so they had to use the best words they could, knowing it was not completely accurate. Anyone who has translated from one language to another knows this problem exists and they have to do the same thing. If you read these records with the same attitude, etc. as you did the Book of Mormon, the Lord will likewise witness the truthfulness of them. There are many, like myself, who have received that witness and more. If you don’t do that you will forever conjecture and never come to the knowledge of the truth. Now, is it appropriate to force these records on churches or groups? No, it is not. The Lord is giving these records to those who want them. Most people are perfectly happy with what they have and the Lord is working with them to the degree they will allow Him. On the other hand, there are countless others who have been begging the Lord for more and the Lord is not a liar. Those who ask will receive. I suspect history will repeat itself where those who don’t want more will ignore the principles of the Gospel they already have and seek to force their beliefs on those who do want more. Maybe that will be the great split that has been prophesied of the people in our day. Time will tell. We have been told that revelation and guidance of the Holy Ghost will be required to make it through whatever it is that is coming. It seems the two sides are clearly visible. There are those who are humble and turn to God and then there are the others who seek the proof from man, even men they consider holy because of their titles, for they view their words higher than getting it for themselves directly from God. It is a sad day when God’s word has been so altered that instead of trusting no one (even the prophet) unless one receives a proper confirmation from the Holy Ghost, most believe the opposite. That is scary, but it is also a fulfillment of prophecy.

Fourth, it is good to be skeptical, but not to the point where one becomes unteachable. What Steez909 said is absolutely true. There are many who are bringing forth records, which are not true. Satan always has his counterfeits. But God has not left us without a way to know what is true and what is not. Again, follow the same patter you used to get a witness of the Book of Mormon. If you alter the pattern, all bets are off that you will receive a proper witness. I don’t know about you, but I have seen people who absolutely do not believe the Book of Mormon could possibly be true and they do receive some kind of witness supporting their viewpoint. I don’t know if it is the Holy Ghost is verifying the truth that altering God’s words is wrong and since they believe that is what the Book of Mormon is doing, then it is proof to them it is incorrect, or if an evil spirit was able to deceive them. I don’t know. All I know is I have received the sweet peace from reading the Book of Mormon and I believe it is a witness that it is authentic. I have also received the same with these Archives with the clear understanding it needs to be read as apocrypha like any other record. Those of us who have been called to bring them forth are not scholars. But we are doing the best we can to fulfill what the Lord has asked us to do.

To end, I wanted to say there is still a lot more to come with the Mentinah Archives. Four of he five translators have completed the translations; they have each have translated the same records. As the fifth one completes they compare their translations to be released in English. It is then my responsibility to see it is put up on the website and publish the volumes. None of the translators receive any financial benefit for what they have done. The Archives are slowly coming out because the translators have other responsibilities besides translating, like feeding their families. Also, the reason so few people know about these records is because we simply do not have the means to let the people know any faster. If we had the money we would put up billboards, etc. The best we have been able to do is hand out flyers and word of mouth. Hopefully more people will realize the critical value of these records and donate whatever means they have to help get them out. I don’t really expect that from the culture here for most wait until the Church makes a move instead of being anxiously engaged in a good cause. I doubt very seriously that the Church will ever make a move, for there are many prophecies that seem to sustain that doubt. But I would be thrilled to find myself wrong. Those who want a better idea of what the Lord is doing to bring forth these translations can go back and study how the Lord did it with Joseph Smith. It is very similar. The heavens are opened. The original writers and God are very much involved in helping the translators. This should not be a surprise to anyone, yet it is a great stumbling block for many because of the condition the prophets and Christ said the Church and the world would be in in our day. For example, there are those who simply do not believe that God will allow anyone to be a translator unless he is one of the General Authorities of the Church. They don’t recognize that Joseph Smith was a translator before he was called to be the head of the Church. The fact is, God can call anyone He wants to be a translator, even an ignorant farm boy. Heck, there are many who are called on missions and have to translate from one language to another. The idea that God is only allowed to use certain people to translate from one language to another is ridiculous. Those who have ears to hear will hear and those who are so caught up in the world and the doctrines of man mingled with scripture will be limited in what they hear. In fact, we will all be limited in our hearing based on the limits we individually set. It should not be a surprise that the records coming forth are doing exactly what they are suppose to be doing, even revealing hidden knowledge and understandings. There are great things in the future. The many different records coming forth are like opening the floodgates for what is to come. Jesus is the Christ and all the prophecies of our day are and will be fulfilled.

Sincerely,
Ea-lea Powitz Peopeo

Interesting

I am definetely not closed to the idea of additional scripture. In fact, I'd be thrilled if the Church were to recognize this as canonical scripture.

I'd definetely like to give it a read once it comes out. I won't take it as scripture until the Church does and also until I receive personal confirmation through prayer.

"There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." - Hamlet, Shakespeare

What the...?

  1. The website says that the Chruch was contact in '57, so they're apparently aware (or were at one time aware) of this stuff. Has there been any comment by a GA or church official?
  2. Why is this the first that anybody has really heard of this?
  3. When is the english translation due out?
  4. If this is true scripture, why isn't it going through normal church channels, rather than a third-party, non-church-authorized translation and publication?
  5. Forgive me for being highly skeptical, but this seems like hogwash to me. It'd be awesome if this was true, for I greatly look forward to additional scripture, but for the time being, I'm of the opinion that this isn't true.
  6. The website reports interaction w/ Brigham Young. Is there anything in Pres. Young's journals or notes that indicate this ever taking place?

Blogged:

Blogged: http://www.connorboyack.com/blog/the-book-of-hagoth

Has anybody read the book yet? I d/l the PDF from their site and read a few verses of it. I'm curious to see what light will be shed on this as time progresses and more people learn about it.

Mentinah Archives...

So I'm suppossed to automatically disregard looking into this because he was busted for growing shrooms once?? Joseph Smith was convicted of gold-digging once, and accused of a whole host of other things. Should I throw out my Book of Mormon too?

BOMW

PS... I like how you threw Bishop in front of your name to give yourself an air of credibility.

Professionalism to publish

If the translation is real or the record is real then the person who translated it would seek to have it published in a peer review journal. If it never makes it that far, then it is definitely a hoax.

To get into a peer review journal, the translation would need to be independantly checked for correctness. Also the circumstances of the find verified, the date of the original record checked and the original record would have to be shown.

Compare the release of "The Book of Hagoth" with the circumstances and translation of the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Mentinah Archives

PeoPeo,
Can you please e-mail me personally? My address is: bjrjyr@cs.com

I would like further discussion regarding this posting but in private.
Your sister,
Cheyenne

Reply to PeoPeo

PeoPeo, we met a couple of years ago waiting for our tires to be repaired by Fakler Tires in Orem. There you told me that it is not your interest to contend and to trying to pull away people from their religion nor was it your intention to make this a religion. I have to say that I read some of the Mentiah records. I also read your response to the above persons. I would like to add a few things if you permit me and would hopefully be so kind to respond. I am somewhat seriously concerned about your statements about the Church of God and his Apostels. I am concerned that it appears that in spite of your earlier statements to me, that you are mingling your records with religous intentions. I believe that Church of Jesus Christ of LDS is the true Church of our Savior Jesus Christ. His apostels and his prophet are those that are so to speak in command to lead His Church. Many people perhaps misinterpret the importance of "other" scriptures. If God wanted your records be part of His Religion that so it would be. Apparently He does not. Nor do I believe that he has sought you out to start a Relion contrary to and in contention to His already restored Church. But that does not mean whether the Mentinah Records are wrong or false. As I know with 1000% assurity, there are countless records written by many cultures. Not to believe that and/or hold this for possible would really be ingorant. Not everything may be scripture. What is scripture? I would like to think that Scripture is holy (not to be mistaken for sacret). The Mentinah records are sacret to your people. And anyone on this Earth should respect that. Are they Scripture? Is there any recored where in the Mentinah book the request exists to start a religion? Why is it that you speak out against the Church of God and against his Prophets? I don't think God intents you to content with His own prophets. I think the records are good. Your interpretation of the value and the difficulties of translating are certainly true. But please do not try to compare the form of translation with the method the Book of Mormon was translated unless the translator had an Urim and Thumin. And last, but not least. To anyone that believes there are only the Bible and the Book of Mormon as records of old, there are two challenges one has to ponder about: One is that only two cultures have spoken and recorded their history, and the second is "what about modern revelation". And those who fear to read the Mentinah records as scriptures: They are not scripture, they are records of old, if so, just like somebody has written his journal which has now been translated. Were it differently, God would have caused these records to be included in the scripture libary of His Church. Remember, God is not a God of confusion. His house is a house of order. The Mentinah book / records share some very nice stories. I enjoyed the one especially of the visit of our Lord Jesus Christ, just another documentation that Jesus has many sheep and apparently He visited them all. He had a busy schedule. I don't know what it means for me that I met you and I know of these records. But I know as a surety, there will be many surprises for all of us. I don't want to be the ignorant one. I am concerned about you leading away people from the Church. Please don't. Please don't say half truth to one and the other half to another. Remember, that you told me that you will not contend and that you will try to pretent that these records are scripture. What concerns me is that said that one day the Mormons will join you yet you are not a religion. I have to go now. I wish you well.
Thomas

Yeah I have!!! :-)

I have read all four volumes, and have thoroughly enjoyed them. I have even had spiritual experiences that have clarified things for me regarding the ministry of the Savior to the Ancient Native Americans then. I also understand in greater measure now, how the Modern Native Americans will play a VITAL role in the fullfillment of important prophecies yet to be fulfilled! How do you put four Volumes into a teeny little response? Then again what do LDS Missionaries tell investigators to do with the Book of Mormon? READ IT, and then PRAY about whether it is TRUE!!! Why not do the same with these and put your trust in the same witness from the Holy Ghost you recieved about the Book of Mormon? :-) 2 Nephi chapter 29 is very clear about "other records". Blessings to you All, James

To answer your posting

Dear Thomas, Saturday, January 27, 2007

The clarification you seek is extremely simple. You assumed I lied when I hadn’t. I did not do any of the things you suggested. I did not teach anything different than what the Lord and His prophets have taught. I have not sought a following, nor have I tried to lead anyone away from the Lord or the LDS Church. If you go back and reread the letter you will realize I also did not claim these records were scriptures. I know I don’t have the authority to call them scriptures. Yes, those things given and received by the power of the Holy Ghost are scripture, but that is an individual thing and not my place to announce. Certainly there are groups like the Church that can and do canonize records. But what the Church chooses to do or not do on that matter has nothing to do with me. Again, all of these things you thought evil of me you assumed and I cannot take responsibility for your assumptions. Those belong to you.

Thomas, I honestly do not know what I can do for you on this. The assumptions you came up with are almost a universal response among the LDS community. It is a cultural thing, just like with the Jews. Remember when the Savior told them about His other sheep? They too made an assumption. The Lord did not correct them because His Father didn’t command Him to do so. I suppose if I had come among the Jews talking about the Lord’s other sheep from the clarifications the Lord had given to His other sheep, the Jews too would have made similar judgment calls as you have about me because the truth of His other sheep would not support their assumption. The only thing I can think to suggest to you is to study the words of the Lord and His prophets now that a new perspective has been presented to you. I believe you will find their words will read differently to you concerning the conditions of the Church in our day, the records coming forth and especially the chronological history of the House of Israel as it relates to the descendants of Lehi. Most of all I encourage you to take your findings back to the Lord and get a proper confirmation from the Holy Ghost. It is only through the Holy Ghost we can come to know the truth of all things and our value of things should only be based on those confirmations.

I don’t know what else to tell you. I do know there are those who are LDS who believe the assumptions of the culture are the doctrines of the Church. To them I will always be viewed as going against the Lord and His Church because I often do not support their assumptions. They had good guesses, but like the Jews, those guesses were wrong. There is nothing I can do about what they choose to believe. The Lord has made clarifications if they wish to accept them. But even if I took the time to verify each assumption is not doctrine according to the records they claim are legitimate, like the scriptures and the words of the prophets, it would not change their beliefs. In fact, they will believe all the more I am what they think I am. No one likes being corrected by someone who they believe is wrong. On the other hand, there are those who realize the assumptions are not the doctrine. They have generally gone through a lot to get to that point. They know that the Lord works with stewardships, so it doesn’t surprise them, for example, that the Lord went to the record keepers and told them it was time to release the records. They have no problem that the Lord provided the way for them to accomplish the things He commanded them including giving them types of Urim and Thummins to reveal and verify accuracy. They know that only the Holy Ghost is the final word on what is true and what is not. They have no problem doing what it takes to get a proper confirmation of the authenticity of these records. They understand the Lord promised we would have His dealings with other Nations. It doesn’t surprise them to find the Lord had revealed to other nations more than He has to ours on different subjects and they are glad to get a confirmation and add those beliefs to their own. They recognize the callings those of us have in bringing forth these records and they are grateful we are willing to do those things. They know our motivation is right, that are desire is not to pull people away from God but to give them more to add to what they already have. There is no way to harmonize these two points of view among the LDS. It was prophesied that Good and evil would be spoken of Joseph Smith. It is the same with anyone else the Lord calls to do a similar work. Only the Holy Ghost can verify which it is and that is on an individual bases. Until a person properly goes through what is needed to get that confirmation they will only be left to their own assumptions and opinions. If we are not careful, our opinions can be quite damaging to the work of the Lord. So it is best to overcome them as quickly as possible using the principles the Lord has established for that purpose and cease using the philosophies and logics that man has established hoping to accomplish that which can not be accomplished outside using the principles of the Lord.

May God bless you and yours.

Sincerely,
Ea-lea Powitz Peopeo

P.S. I notice some posted questions from others. Four of the five translators are done, but the fifth is extremely busy with his responsibilities and gets to the translations as he can. Four of the volumes are released with more to come. They can be downloaded without cost at Mentinah.com. Click on the down loads button. I don’t know why it is universally accepted among the LDS that the LDS Church must release such things. Of the countless ancient records that have already come forth, I am aware of none that has come forth since the Pearl of Great Price (not even the Book of Mormon was originally released by the Church) and Joseph’s translations of the Bible. I would be appreciative if someone could let me know of any translations the Church has put out in the last 125 years, it would be quite interesting to see.

Prayer

James77

Your message sounds or interpets as if you're living a life of 'quite desperation'. Not to be judgemental nor depriving. You have this 'platform-preaching' to tell people to pray about it and it WILL be true.

Do you think that President Monson has 'no' clue in regards to this and you're out preaching to people to pray and they WILL know these records are true? You appear 'desperate' as I mentioned a few lines above.

You 'shun' the Prophet and God/Christ and revelation. You appear to be the 'portal' of information for this record. Christ wouldn't EVER bring additional scripture as is being portrayed by these Mentinah records and how they are handled.

Have you seen the writing of the Chief a few remarks above? These are the times when people will 'go astray' as you hint to be doing.

You may not think so-but your comment contains 'darkness' as it is read.

This book will soon be passed aside as other false Mormon anti-religion hoaxs. We will listen to the proper channels - not your channel - what ever that is tuned to.

Thank YOu

hoax

In the so called "book of hagoth", it says that the people of hagoth or the "Nemenhah" keep in contact with the other Nephites, that the Nephites traded with the Nemenhah, that Shiblon sent word to the Nemenhah, that Helaman sent teachers to the Nemenhah, and that Nephi the son of Helaman even came and spent some time among the Nemenhah.
But in The Book of Mormon; Alma 63:5-8, it clearly says:
5 And it came to pass that Hagoth, he being an aexceedingly curious man, therefore he went forth and built him an exceedingly large ship, on the borders of the land bBountiful, by the land Desolation, and launched it forth into the west sea, by the cnarrow neck which led into the land northward.
6 And behold, there were many of the Nephites who did enter therein and did sail forth with much provisions, and also many women and children; and they took their course northward. And thus ended the thirty and seventh year.
7 And in the thirty and eighth year, this man built aother ships. And the first ship did also return, and many more people did enter into it; and they also took much provisions, and set out again to the land northward.
8 And it came to pass that they were never heard of more. And we suppose that they were drowned in the depths of the sea. And it came to pass that one other ship also did sail forth; and whither she did go we know not.
Now read verse 8 again.
Ok, so I would say that this so called "book of hagoth" is a hoax.

Hoax indeed...

Wow, this is fascinating. One of my favorite BoM characters turned into a masterful work of fiction and deceit! Poor Hagoth must be rolling in his (undoubtedly well-built) casket.

Can fiction be inspiring? moving? engaging? spiritual? enlightening? You bet. Just read the Work and the Glory series. Does that make it true? Nope! Mr. Landis is a talented and creative guy. I'll give him that much. So was J.R.R.Tolkien, does that mean that there really was a Shire? Nope.

Mr. Landis, I'm sorry to join the growing chorus against your claims. But may I suggest that you simply tell the truth and release this material as the work of fiction it is? I bet you'd get a lot more readers that way. Something about how you continually, in every one of your posts, try to discredit the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is very telling about your true intentions.

There is absolutely ZERO similarity between you and Joseph Smith, and the fact that you have tried in several posts to draw comparisons is incredibly disrespectful, and dare I say, evil. Point 1) Joseph Smith had no "secret translators" as you claim to have. He and his scribes did the work themselves, and never hid the origins of the Book of Mormon. What you have told us is that you have some mysterious 5 translators who keep dying of various strange causes. Who are they? Why hide them? Oh yeah, because they don't exist. Point 2) When Joseph Smith restored the church, it had to be done because it wasn't on the earth at that time. Now it is. So why would the Lord work through some agitator like you to reveal his truths instead of through the organization that HE established?

Folks, I don't think Mr. Landis is actively responding to these posts, so I'm leaving this message, not so much for him, but for whomever follows me in stumbling upon this very interesting thread. Bottom line, enjoy reading what Mr. Landis has written, but please 1) don't quote it in your next Sunday School lesson, and 2) remember that if the LDS church truly is God's church, then he'll use it and it's ordained leaders to let us know when some new bit of real scripture is worth our reading.

- DPA

Hagoth and the Colorado River....

Hi everybody. I received an email from a person who read my earlier post..... yes, I know, Mr. Peopeo, I read your answer to my post as well (posted about 2 or 3 years ago). It sounds like your intentions are honest. Forgive my doubt though.

Lately I reflected back on the Book of Mormon origin wherein Hagoth was named and sailed north. The Book of Mormon geography took place at the Great Lakes NE of the USA and Canada area.

Then I remembered reading the Book of Hagoth wherein he sailed north there on the Colorado River. ...Up north, there is no Colorado River. Well, that does not mean that the Book of Hagoth is wrong or bad. But that could mean a lot other things. I don't know. I am not going to judge your book.

I feel strongly that I would and will rather read and study the Bible and the Book of Mormon and the other official scriptures. I don't even watch TV. I don't have time. My family is dear to me. The book of Hagoth does not give me peace. In fact it confuses me. Whereas, the Book of Mormon gives me peace.

Anyway, for whatever its worth, my rule is KISS, and I am sure many Marketing people know what that means.

Best Wishes

Thomas

Simple math

A simple reading and math test can show that the archives do not jive with the Book of Mormon. In the Book of Mormon Alma 63:7 Hagoth sailed out in the 68th year of the reign of the Judges this matches somewhat the Book of Hagoth. The Book of HAgoth claims they traveled north then entered a river left people near the mouth and traveled 93 days then found good land. They then sent people back to tell those they left that would be another 93 days and yet another 93 days back up river. That would be 279 days leaving 86 days not even enough time for one more trip up the river let alone back to the Nephites. Then the Book of Hagoth claims that Shiblon sent messiages to Hagoth and his people. Now besides the fact that the Book of Mormon says they were never heard from again the Book of Mormon also says that Shiblon died in the 39th year of the reign of the judges. seeing as how they had less than 1 trips worth of time to travel up river Shiblon could not have "continued "to send emessaries to them, he was dead.
Larry

BofM geography

The prophet Joseph Smith said that the Book of Mormon did not take place in U.S. territory. According to Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon took place in Central America and Southern Mexico. Then after the great destruction of the Nephites, the Lamanites were free to go northward, and that's when they came up to North America, however, that was not until after Book of Mormon times. Book of Mormomon events did not happen in U.S. or Canada territory.
A little proof is all of the archeological finidngs in Central America that date to Book of Mormon times. There are no sites of that nature in U.S. or Canada.

Plaque Attack VitaHound

There is absolutely 0 common points between you and Joseph Smith, and the fact that you have attempted in several posts to paint comparisons is incredibly disrespectful. Joseph Smith had no "secret translators" as you claim to to be the case. He and his scribes did the work themselves, and never hid the origins of the Book of Mormon. What you have told us is that you have some mysterious 5 translators who keep dying of various diseases. Who are they? Why hide them? Oh yeah, VitaHound Plaque Attack and Petzlife because they don't exist. Point 2) When Joseph Smith restored the church, it had to be done because it wasn't on the earth at that time. Now it is.