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It's Time We Mormons Leave the Republican Party

For far too long we have let the Anti-Mormon Right decide for us which Christian principles are important and which ones are not, while we carry to church each Sunday THE most staggering collection of devine edicts that just happen (in today's language) to be liberal - in our own standard works. D&C 98:23-48 is just one example. It is amazing that the term "Christian Pacifism" could ever have been coined without this scripture! If Joseph Smith was a prophet, and he was, then this and many other ignored scriptures need our attention - NOW. They were given by revelation for us - in our current situation. How can we defend ourselves against attacks by those who would condemn us to hell for believing in his prophetic mission, while we so blatantly pick and choose which of his revelations we will acknowledge and follow?! (This is just one topic. Another incredible inconsistency is the fact that Mormons, especially here in Utah, seem to be on a mission to trash the Lord's creation as fast as possible). We have been manipulated(!) by the efforts of right-wing pundits and radio personalities, to polarize our society - a pattern illustrated and condemned over and over and over in the Book of Mormon. By the way, if you care to comment please don't just dog-pile on me for being liberal. Rather, read D&C 98:23-48. Think about it. Don't compare it with other scriptures in an attempt to negate or undermine it. Don't say that that particular scripture is just for people a long time ago. It isn't. Ask yourself: "Why would the Lord give such clear and specific instructions on such a sensitive topic? Please, comment on the scripture.

The Anti-Mormon right? I'm

The Anti-Mormon right? I'm sorry, but I'm not buying. Given that Romney is leading many, many, of the primary polls, I'm inclined to believe that these people are not anti-Mormon.

"Seem to be on a mission to trash the Lord's creation."

You ask us not to dog-pile on you for being liberal, yet you make insulting, sweeping generaliztions about Utahns and Republicans in general. I carpool. I use CFL bulbs in my home. But I don't sympathize with the Democratic environmental puritanism. Nor do most Democrats from rural areas, where people tend to be hurt by environmental regulation the most. One of the states with the most stringent environmental regulations (California) threw out their last DEMOCRATIC governor with an overwhelming majority in the only California recall election ever held, and replaced him with Schwarzenegger, due to Davis's environmental regulations crippling the economy of the state.

THroughout your writings, you offer us no reason to actually switch to the Democratic position, you just attack the Republican straw men you've set up. If you really feel your party has some positions of merit (which I believe it has, even though they're not outweighed by other downsides), explain those to us.

Why don't you try this:
Clearly delineate the Democratic party position on a given issue. Then, explain to us why that should be better for us than the same official Republican stance on the same issue.

somewhat agree

while i think provojoe was a bit inflammatory, he does bring up some interesting points. would you really vote for huckabee after his support of the anti-mormon southern baptist convention in salt lake city a few years back and after his feigned ignorance about mormonism? he is leading the polls in south carolina and moving up in iowa. conservative mormons might have to start asking themselves this question.

I wouldn't vote for Huckabee

He combines big-state liberal nannyism (i.e., his proposed smoking ban) with a complete lack of understanding of both domestic and foreign policy. And his theological degree doesn't particularly impress me. In some places, he might be electable (Midwest and South), but on a national scale, he's hopeless.

I wouldn't not vote for him because he dislikes Mormons; I would not vote for him because I don't think he's a very sophisticated leader. A church congregation is a far cry from leading the US>

Yeah, there's so much here

Yeah, there's so much here that I don't even know where to start. You need to pick one issue at a time.

I agree and already left

Republican does not equate to Conservative. I am a conservative who left the Republicans 3 years ago. I'll never be a Deomcrat, but I'll probably never be a Republican again either.

Yes, the Republican party is dominated by psycho Jesus-freaks who hates Mormons.

Provojoe does have a point

So I read through all of section 98. He does have a point. He reminds me a lot of Allen Keys (though he will likely be offended by the comment). Allen knows his stuff, but isn't the most charasmatic politician who goes overboard attacking everyone. --- But besides that, there is a point to be made, and I think he made it.

Section 98 pretty much lays out when you should and shouldn't go to war and the consequences. I'm glad he reminded me of the section, because I had pretty much forgot about the instructions given.
Does it say that America was wrong for going to war? Well, in my opinion, that certainly could be the case....However, looking at modern day Leaders within the 12 and the first presidency I haven't yet heard of them "Renouncing" the war. Have you? (if you have please document it). Do they need to? I don't know really, maybe they do, maybe they don't.

As far as leaving the Republican party, I'm not so sure that will help. You see as someone else already pointed out before, in General Democrats support things like Abortion, Gay Rights, Feminism, all that crap. The Church leaders HAVE come out and Renounced those things, even going as far as to write letters that are sent to stakes and wards to be read over the pulpit to vote against laws allowing these things. They have also given council, and will likely continue to give council to pray and vote for the person who will uphold your values the most. This doesn't mean either party (as they have never said that, and I doubt ever will). We need the balance.

So in other words, choose the "lesser" of the two evils. And in my opinion, the lesser of evils remains the Republicans, and NOT the Democrats. Now could other parties be the "lesser of evils"? Certainly, however, sadly as also stated in other posts we pretty much live on a Two party system (at least for presidential candidates). Luckily in some states other parties are allowed to participate. And we should study those parties and the values represented if people are running who are not Republicans or Democrats.

Anyway, I'll stay a republican. However, as soon as Moral democrat steps up to the plate, I'll switch. The Party doesn't matter, values matter.

Democrats closer to the Church on Abortion???

Now that's gotta be the craziest thing I've read in this entire set of postings.

As I recall the church says, don't have abortions except in the case of rape, incest, or the mothers life is in danger. And even then, only after careful consideration of all options.

"Most" republicans say the same thing. "Most" democrats argue the right to choose bull crap. I actually believe in a womens right to choose....Except different than most. I believe she should have choice, AND accountability. She chose to have sex (as did the man), and thus both should be accountable. Married or not, everyone makes the choice, and needs to be accountable. Abortion comes in only when that choice was not hers (rape/incest), or she could die while having birth.

We live in a country that wants something for nothing, or fails to be accountable for their actions.

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Anyway, are you right about America being wrong to go to War? Honestly I don't know. I don't discount your argument, nor do I totally buy into it. But it certainly is a good argument.

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Do I believe the Democrats are more moral than the Republicans. As individuals, I don't believe anyone can judge. As far as the general parties views on morals. ....Democrats are closer to Hell than anyone else.

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Gay rights is NOT something the church believes in - as far as the rights up for debate. Do they have the same constitutional right as every other person...YES!! However, that means they must also follow the same laws. Marriage between a man and woman is right for a man and woman, not a man and man, or a woman and woman. That is NOT a right... those are the gay rights I'm talking about.

Does the church believe Gays should be married? - NO
Does the church believe Gays should be able to adopt? - NO

Those gay "Rights" are more of demands for evil. Lets raise our children in families, not jacked up relationships.

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There are several moral democratic candidates. I actually see a few of them that have good morals. The one that doesn't is the Hillary Monster. Like the Cookie monster, she eat up this country, except it will be all the money, the economy, the american dream, and things we hold dear.

However, maybe I'll vote for Hillary....won't that make the 2nd Coming happen faster????

Provojoe's right guys

Provojoe,
You're absolutely right. The Republican Party and its views on war are about as far as you can get from D&C 98. Unfortunately, I'd guess that most of the LDS population are closer to the Republican way of doing things than to the Lord's way of doing things with regards to the war. D&C 98 is just one example of the Lord's policy on war. For more on the subject of war and the Gospel of Jesus Christ see this old Provopulse article:

http://provopulse.com/home/?q=node/1234

I'm not comparing party to

I'm not comparing party to party this time. I'm comparing scripture to party.

Yesterday on NPR Huckabee

Yesterday on NPR Huckabee claimed he was catching more heat for his religion than any other candidate, including Romney. Obviously, this is crazy. He also said that God is responsible for his recent surge in popularity. Those who feared Romney and his religion should he have won better look out. Those fears have a real face and it's name is Huckabee.

Who, me? Ok, D&C 98:23-48

Who, me? Ok, D&C 98:23-48

If you personally aren't

If you personally aren't trashing the earth, then you should be commended. But if you're that astute then certainly you know that the record of Utahns on such things is dismal. As far as Gray Davis goes, he was kicked out for many reasons and I've never heard anything about crippling the economy with environmentalism (I'm from San Jose). California remains one of the most proactive states when it comes to the environment - even under Arnold's leadership.

I hope I didn't go overboard

I hope I didn't go overboard attacking everyone. Having said that I think if there ever was an "Alan Keyes" moment, this is it. Starting wars out of nothing fundamentally changes what America is. With these scriptures, Mormons should definitely understand this and opt out out this mentality. This doesn't need to be spelled out by the Twelve. Taking the lives of innocent people who are clearly alive is the greatest of all evils (along with denying the Holy Ghost) so to support the party that is strongly pro-war basically amounts to a war on God. (If you have done it unto one of the least of these...) No, I couldn't agree that it is the lesser of any evils, unless there was a denying the holy ghost party. The democratic platform statement (safe and rare) is much closer to the church's stand on abortion than that of the republican party. "Gay Rights" is something the church indeed believes in, though not gay marriage.
There are several moral democratic candidates right now.

what...

There is a problem with the abortion issue involving both major parties. If the Reds had their way, the state would get to decide who and when was entitled to an abortion. I, for one, have found that the government is largely too little, too late in resolving problems, and generally incompetent. On the other hand, the Blues have their way as it is, and the "mother's choice" is legal. Now either side could say that abortion should only be used in emergency situations, but that isn't how reality plays out. Good people from both parties are appalled at the use of abortion as a means of birth control. Nevertheless, that's how it happens in the real world.

As for war, and particularly the war in Iraq, this issue just isn't something easily discounted by a section in the scriptures or quotes from general authorities. We live in an age of nuclear technology and weapons of mass destruction. So whether or not you feel this war is justified should hinge more on whether or not you buy into the Bush Administration's motives for invading Iraq. We can't just allow ourselves to be attacked a few times before responding in defense: a few times is all it takes to completely destroy us. Personally, I think that it's been made abundantly clear that if we, as a nation, are righteous, the Lord will protect us. But what if you are in the position of Mormon, who knew that the people were unrighteous but was still a military leader? My point- it's not so cut and dry.

Democrats are not closer to hell. Politicians aren't all that different. You seem to base your beliefs on the morality or so-called moral values of the Republican party. I don't buy into it. That said, the Dems haven't done a whole lot for this country for a long time. But neither have the Republicans. Pot, meet kettle.

Gay rights/marriage: first, gays can and do already adopt. That argument is moot. My biggest problem with this whole issue leads back to my previous paragraph, wherein Republicans (at least party leaders) only pretend to have superior morals and values. If the sanctity of the family were that important, where have the cries of righteous indignation been with regards to high divorce and infidelity rates? Why not a push for adoption among man/wife married families? Regardless of what is said, I suspect the tradition is more important among the Reds than the "moral fabric" of society. I'm not in favor of gay marriage, but I think nearly every argument produced by the righteous right in opposition to it is a load of complete crap.

We don't have leaders in office anymore. Just politicians. I find it hard to believe that any politicians stand for what is right. They stand for what will make/keep them popular.

You wrote:

"It's time we Mormons leave the Republican Party."

I'm sorry, but one scripture alone does not merit the wholesale dropping of a set of values many Utahns hold dear to them, including four of five major points, none of which you see fit to address. If you can game out why Mormons should change their mind on these, then I'm all ears. Right now, it appears you're stuck on one thing-- the war and your interpretation for a scriptural dismissal thereof.

1) Abortion. Mormons hold the sanctity of life dear. Democrats, by and large, have caused laws to be passed forbidding states to set their own abortion regulations, and have also mandated the use of federal funds to provide for abortions in some cases. Understandably, many Mormons are opposed to this. What say ye here?

2) Gun control. The Mormons who settled Utah, Idaho, and Wyoming came from a frontier culture that heavily valued self-reliance and independence. That culture continues to this day. Democrats have historically pushed for gun control, including the Brady Bill of 1994, which in turn caused a change in House of Reps control that year. What say you to this?

3) Federalism. Utah, under President Buchanan, fought a limited-action war against Utah to replace the government of the territory at that time. See the article "Utah War" at Wikipedia if you're interested. As a result, Utahns tended to heavily distrust the federal government as not looking out for their best interests, a legacy carried on to this day. Democrats believe in heavily centralized government with the power to exert its will. Given Democratic involvement in several religious mishaps (Branch Davidians, among others), Mormons feel uncomfortable with a relatively anti-conservative-religion centralized power. What do you say about this?

Lastly, the record of Utahns on things environmental is not dismal. Nowhere in Utah even cracks the top ten most-polluted per capita regions of the US.
http://www.sixwise.com/newsletters/05/09/07/the_25_most_polluted_regions_in_the_united_states.htm
But hey, my hometown's #2 on both those lists, and California occupies a number of top spots.

And, regrettably, you're wrong about California's economic meltdown. In case you weren't paying attention, California is facing an 18 BILLION dollar budget deficit (they were expecting a 4.1 billion dollar surplus, but are currently 14 billion in the hole). See the links:
http://www.nbc11.com/news/14858065/detail.html
That's a San Jose NBC station. You really ought to pay attention to your local news. Matter of fact, Schwarzenegger is claiming he'll call a fiscal emergency. You'll recall that California's legislature (which controls the budget) is, by and large, Democrat, and that California is one of the most heavily taxed states in the Union. It's also one of the least friendly in which to do business, which is why many businesses and their employees are leaving. More links:
http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/1923.html
California, one of the ten worst for taxes. This, of course, ignores the joys of living within the 9th Circuit Court and the litigious cost that entails.
Which, as a result, causes California to lose people, despite the massive influx of illegal immigrants:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/state/20061211-0634-ca-californiaexodus.html

More coming tomorrow, on why California's bad environmental legislation (the no-lead-in-Condor-territory and the clean energy bill) will further cripple the state, if you'd like.

thank you

could not have said it any better,

Thanks for your measured

Thanks for your measured response to these issues, but section 98 can't be so easily dismissed. If we lived it peace would be the result. Trusting the Lord is the righteous way to go. When it comes to violence, not fighting back initially, when we could, is righteousness. He set the standard. Sustained peace through victory is a myth. That is one of the primary messages of the Book of Mormon, particularly in light of D&C 98. The "that was for them but this is now" argument doesn't hold water. These ignored scriptures are not obsolete. We haven't even given them due consideration.

Yes, the anti-Mormon right.

Yes, the anti-Mormon right. The same one that forced Romney to kiss up and make that speech.

>>>"I'm sorry, but one scripture alone does not merit the wholesale dropping of a set of valuesmany Utahns hold dear to them

Need more? D&C 49:20, 3 Nephi 3:21
The trouble is, they seem to hold those "values" more dear than the scriptures.

>>>"...including four of five major points, none of which you see fit to address.

Well, you hadn't brought them up yet.

>>>"Right now, it appears you're stuck on one thing-- the war and your interpretation for a scriptural dismissal thereof."

It's not just the war, it's the mentality of war. As Spencer W. Kimball said, we are a "war-like people". Now we've seen fit to engage in starting war under a fabricated case of preemption (out of nothing). Only one of the Republican candidates believe the war was wrong and it's not Mitt Romney. The war in Iraq has fundamentally changed who we (America) are. It is expressly forbidden in the Book of Mormon.
It is not one among many important issues. It dwarfs them all because it involves the mass taking of innocent life among those who we all agree are alive.

First of all, your apparent reasoning that to be in a party you have to follow everything in the platform exactly, is wrong.

I'm glad you brought up abortion. The text of the democratic party platform says abortion should be safe and rare. The Republican party platform leaves no room for abortion under any circumstances. The LDS stand on abortion is closer to the democratic party's stand than the republican. That's why they demonstrate against us at temple square.

I'm confused about your statements about California. People are leaving because a small to averaged sized 40-year-old house costs $800,000 plus. I fail to see how the budget problems they are having are linked to environmental policy, particularly when that's not being reported at all.

It doesn't matter how we compare to other states. What matters is air quality, etc.
http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_7681061

If Republicans are so against centralized, big federal government, why do they religiously promote centralized, big business and the government regulations that support them. The latter impacts our freedom just as much or more than the former. But I digress.

I used D&C 98:23-48 to illustrate the humility the Lord expects from his people, even at the risk of being called a pansy by the world. Even at the cost of the lives of those we love. No political party currently embodies that, but the Democratic party comes FAR closer than the Republican. Tragically, this godly attitude is the polar opposite of the prevailing attitude among LDS Republicans. We have been encouraged (successfully) to worship our military might instead of God. So far we have been all too willing.

another election same garbage

Here we are 4 years later and it is the same. LDS people on the whole are one of the most dependable Republican Blocs in the country and yet the party continues to treat us like we are some kind of lower cast untouchables. This is what happens when a group gets taken for granted.